DW Reaction Post: The Crimson Horror--Also Speculation About the 50th

[amberfocus]

So this wasn't the worst episode I've seen, but it wasn't on par with the rest of the second half of season 7. I'm about equally divided on what I liked and didn't like.

Things I didn't like:

1. Madam Vastra--I am so over her. I am tired of there being a Lizard Lady in Victorian England and she hasn't been picked up by the police or had attempts made on her life by the community, because humans as a rule are not that tolerant. Especially back then. She doesn't even try to hide what she is. I mean that veil might as well not even be there the way she lifts it. She'd be shot on sight or lynched. That's the reality.

2. That Sontaran whatever the heck his name is. He's not comic relief. He's just...stupid. And also running around in Victorian England, where anyone can see him. See point # 1.

3. Fainting once was funny, fainting twice was pushing it, and fainting three times was ridiculous. By the time we got there he'd surely seen enough things to not be so surprised by a vanishing TARDIS.

4. The Doctor kissing Jenny. On the mouth.
A. Not Invited
B. Not welcome
C. He knew she was a lesbian in a committed relationship. He was basically kissing someone else's spouse. I understand his exuberance, but a hug would have done and not been...I don't know, intrinsically wrong. I wonder if this would have been thought of as "funny" (i.e. ha ha, the Doctor kissed a lesbain) if he had kissed a straight man with a wife or a straight woman with a husband? I'm glad she decked him.

5. Hello, puppet department? Go rent Farscape and see how it is done. That leech was ridiculous.

6. Funny, I don't remember any photographs of the four of them being taken in the episode in the haunted house. Now there might have been one taken with Victorian era Clara, possibly, but I just don't think so. I mean a governess in a family portrait? It wouldn't have been her place. Also, if the kids I was nanny for had said they'd tell their dad I was a time traveller, I would have said to go ahead. Besides, those photos could have been explained away with a bit of creativity. Easily. I mean, just because it's on the internet, doesn't make it so.

7. The episode kind of felt dumbed down. I know that Doctor Who is and always will be a children's show, but my kids are smarter than this. Come on.

What I liked:

1. Jenny. 1000 times Jenny. I loved her martial arts skills and the way she took down the "super models." I loved her lockpicking kit and I loved how she's fearless.

2. That Jenny slapped the Doctor for kissing her. He deserved it. What he did was inappropriate on so many levels.

3. Ada. Her strength in standing up to her mother at the end. I was so hoping that the Doctor would be able to heal her. After all that darn sonic has been able to do just about anything else.

4. Clara. Not near enough of her, but she was awesome with that chair. "I've got a sonic screwdriver," well, yeah, but "I've got a chair." The sonic is being used for everything lately. It's like the Doctor is never thinking of other ways to do things, so I love that Clara is. This is a problem she can solve the old fashioned way. The screwdriver is turning into a bit of a deus ex machina.

5. The steampunk rocket. I just thought it was cool. I also liked the victrolas making factory noises, but I wished they'd made reference to them.

6. Anyone else think that the computerish thingy on the back of the pipe organ might be related to Mr. Smith from the The Sarah Jane Adventures or is that just me? How cool would that be? I forget Mr. Smith's origins, but a steampunk younger version of him would have been great. It's not like canon matters anymore, they are rewriting it so often, so they could have rewrote it here.

7. Aside from the bad puppet leech, I did like the idea of the villain being a parasite leftover from the Silurian's time. It was new and unique which has been really rare since SM took the reins. It didn't feel recycled.

8. I'm glad the kids are going on the TARDIS. I don't like the manipulative manner that they used to blackmail Clara, but clearly the Doctor is going to go along with it based on the preview.

9. Kudos for the Tegan reference.

And also based on the preview, "Hello, I am Lucretious of the Borg." No, wait, I mean, "I am the Doctor of the Cybermen." Oh, or better yet, Eleven of Twelve instead of Seven of Nine. Back to recycling plots, and this time other people's apparently. Not an homage. Looking more like a rip off. And who thought it would be a good idea to have Cybermen in an amusement park? I hope the episode actually is good. It looks like it could go either way.

Oh, well, lots of feelings going on. Which, you know, is better than the rather hopeless way in which I watched season six and the first half of season seven.

As for the speculation, I have been thinking of the 50th Anniversary special and I am going to mention some spoilers going around just so you can run away now if you want.

The idea that they are going to rewrite the Ninth Doctor so he's totally different and not Christopher Eccleston. I have a hard time believing they would be so dishonorable to the man that relaunched the franchise. But then again, people can be very, very stupid sometimes.

The idea that they will erase Rose from the Doctor's life. To me it doesn't make sense, and again it dishonors someone who was strongly responsible for a succesful relaunch of the franchise. People can bitch and moan about Rose all they want, and whine about how romance shouldn't be on the TARDIS, but that relationship and the way it was is what made Doctor Who so successful when it came back. It was what we invested in. I know SM is set in his vision of DW, but I don't think he would really want that many fans to turn on him, no matter what he says. I think (hope) he's just trolling us.

The idea that someone is trying to kill the Doctor by wiping out all of his past lives, killing each one so that they never existed, and that Clara (or clones of her) has to jump through time trying to stop it being why she is all over the place and being killed off over and over again. At first I thought they wouldn't really do this, erase all of them. Or she'd be able to prevent the Doctor dying over and over again, but only by sacrificing herself over and over again. But then I thought...I thought, what if they did kill him? What if they took him back over and over and over again until he was One? Young and One. One before Susan.

And he survives because Clara finally saves him and she goes travelling with him. Starting the Doctor all over again with a familiar companion and a new first Doctor and giving them that many more regenerations to use. And all of a sudden that does make sense. Because there is only one regeneration left. And it gives us back the Time Lords and takes away the Time War. And it would explain the Doctor being erased from history in The Asylum of the Daleks, bringing it full circle. And honestly, I hate the idea of anyone trying to erase any of the Doctors, because I have loved them all, but it would be a kick ass way to reinvent the wheel. And it would be a plot twist I could respect. Just please, please, please, with a different show runner at the helm, one who is not so terribly self-indulgent. Because it could be done well. But it could also be done in a way that ruins everything that ever came before for everyone.

Comments

[yumimum.livejournal.com]

Quite honestly, I am starting to be terrified that that is what they're gonna do.

Honestly, it would be an amazing reboot idea, but to me, it would feel like a slap in the face to everything and everyone that came before. I wouldn't trust Moffat to handle it, and quite frankly, I blame his showrunner skills as the reason it needs a reboot in the first place. *sigh*

I really do have a bad feeling about November. I see mass fangirl flailing either way.

Also, as for the ep... Ha! yeah, the Farscape could teach 'em a thing or two. Now I'm picturing Rigel on his hovering throne. And yes, that ending with the kids drove me nuts. It was like watching a disney show.

[enchantedquil.livejournal.com]

I did like the Thomas Thomas part.

I have to say I really don't like the majority of what he's done with the show and quite frankly I still haven't forgiven him for GITF.

[wendymr.livejournal.com]

Re. the Jenny kiss, Eleven has done the equivalent: he kissed Rory once, and of course Rory is not only straight but married. So with that in mind it's not exactly out of character for Eleven and he's not singling out a lesbian woman - though it's certainly inappropriate, just as kissing a straight bloke committed elsewhere was.

But singing Jerusalem in 1893 when Parry didn't set the poem to music until 1916... Gatiss, Gatiss, Gatiss.

[ageless-aislynn.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen the new ep yet but I SO agree about Madame Vastra and Strax (had to go it up to find his name because I was drawing a total blank as well ;) ) in that all it would take would've been some sort of handwavy tech thing "Oh and it's a good thing your personal image hologramifier is working today or everybody would see that you're a lizard woman from the dawn of time and not the human woman they think you are!" sort of thing and, while it might've been awfully convenient, it would've been better than wondering why NOBODY NOTICES THEY'RE BOTH OBVIOUSLY NOT HUMAN. o_O

I have to admit, I'm not really looking forward to the 50th, especially with these rumors about rebooting (or should that be just plain booting :S ) Christopher Eccleston out of Nine. :( Just... no. It feels far too much like somebody's taking a personal grudge out on the fans of the show. He IS Nine. The 50th anniversary telling me that my DVD sets are now no longer valid and correct isn't going to make me believe them. It's going to make me ANGRY.

I will loathe the fact that, instead of taking DW forward, the focus will be eradicating its recent past. To me, that's a slap in the face of the fans, especially if it's done in such a way to invalidate the stories, characters and even the ACTORS of the previous series. By actually showing us a different Nine, by showing us that Rose never traveled with Ten, or whatever they do, that's a deliberate slap, IMO.

You can reboot the series if you want and take the show in a different direction and make it different and cool and all of that but showing it to us in a way to make sure we know that THIS set of writers and showrunner is now The Only Right Way To Doctor Who and Everything Before Is Now Wrong And Is Gone is just so deliberately petty and mean-spirited, IMO. I hope they don't do it, I really do. :(

*goes away to take several deep, calming breaths* ;) ♥

[lunawho.livejournal.com]

I actually genuinely enjoyed this episode. I am in complete agreement about being a bit tired of Madam Vastra and Strax though. You're completely on point about how people in Victorian era would be TERRIFIED of her, and that it's out of place, and I'm annoyed that Moffat Era has made a mockery out of Sontarans as villains. I never found them terrifying in looks or anything, but they're a hostile species and I feel that with only having Strax around (and him mainly being comic relief), newer fans are going to forget that. They are *villains* of the Doctor for the most part; not beings he particularly likes to pal around with.

That being said, I loved everything else. Eleven's facial expressions in this episode had me DYING of laughter, and I thoroughly enjoyed watching Jenny deck him one good time. I also feel like the reason they added Madam Vastra was purely because they were the ONLY recurring "companions" who would recognise the importance of the Doctor traveling with Clara. And they needed to remind the viewers that she's "different," cos we may have forgotten from the million times it's been brought up in previous episodes. *rolls eyes* But, Moffat Era has never been big on subtlety really and I've gotten to the point where I just let things like this pass.

But it was a brilliant "Frankenstein" story that payed homage to quite a few of my favourite classic horror works, which is one of the things I love about Gatiss above all the other modern Who writers.

As for the 50th Anniversary theories, I wouldn't worry too much about them. I haven't read any that sound particularly plausible. I doubt Billie and David would have agreed to be in it if it did a disservice to their era and all the hard work they had put into it before. As desperate as she and David have been to work together again, I doubt they'd agree to a crappy story line for their characters, knowing how much those characters were loved by their fanbase.

And if they want an explanation for why there's more than 13 Doctors by the end, just look at the Master. He went through all his regenerations before the 8th Doctor movie even came out, and he still manages to turn up. Plus, in the SJA episode The Death of the Doctor, Russell wrote in Eleven saying that he had an infinite number of regenerations (which pissed everyone off), but it could have easily been a joke...Or not? Plus, in a classic!Who ep, I think it was mentioned somewhere that Time Lords *can* regenerate more than 12 times, it's just no longer stable. But when has the Doctor EVER had a stable regeneration?

Anyway,this is long and I am done now. I'll stop rambling.

[sinecure.livejournal.com]

Agreed, on, well, everything. I actually found this episode boring. I did like the flashbacks looking like old-time video with scratches and whatnot.

The whole thing with Madame Vastra and Jenny and the Sontaran guy, I feel like they're trying to set up a spinoff with them. Which, just... no.

And if Moffat does end up doing that with Rose and Nine and Ten never having met Rose, I'm so done with this show. You can't just re-write the history that we've all grown to love and we revisit so much. And if he took it back even further? I'll blow a couple of gaskets, hoping they hit Moffat square in his misogynistic face.

[angelfireeast.livejournal.com]

4. The Doctor kissing Jenny. On the mouth.
A. Not Invited
B. Not welcome
C. He knew she was a lesbian in a committed relationship. He was basically kissing someone else's spouse. I understand his exuberance, but a hug would have done and not been...I don't know, intrinsically wrong. I wonder if this would have been thought of as "funny" (i.e. ha ha, the Doctor kissed a lesbain) if he had kissed a straight man with a wife or a straight woman with a husband? I'm glad she decked him.

Like that time he kiss Rory when he was married to Amy. It was meant to be lark just like the Doctor kissing a lesbain but it's not funny or cute. It's just not okay.

All the speculation about the 50th Anniversary special is making unhappy. If they rewrite the Ninth Doctor I will never give this show. I hate the idea of just undoing 50 years of Doctor Who. Happy Anniversary we are writing out everything that you ever were. So lets party. *rolleyes* I read a comment by Moffat about any of the Classic Doctor's returning and he said "I don't want to turn this into a fan fest" *rolleyes* It's been 50 years! The fans have kept the show going all that time. That comment just slapped fans in the face. I'm really not looking forward to the 50 Anniversary at all. I wish someone was writing it who loved Doctor Who - all of it and all of the companion, rather then a guy who likes to go for flash and drama.

I'm so over 1. Madam Vastra and That Sontaran. They could be great but they are being used wrong.

[develish1]

I had many of the same thoughts about last weeks ep as you did, especially that kiss, that was so many kinds of wrong

I've seen a few more alleged spoilers about the 50th since I did my last post by the way, which sort of make the rumour I commented on make more sense.

There's what's claimed to be a page of the script doing the rounds and the dialogue quoted on it (between Eleven and Clara) seems to indicate all his past lives are "back where they should be" and that Rose wont remember what happened.

There's also something John hurt was quoted about saying, about being “part of the Doctor”, which would also tie in with the other rumour.

This could mean the ep will be a timey-wimey one where someone has messed with his past, creating an alternative time line, where John Hurt is Nine, and Rose is with him, and Eleven and Ten get together to fix it and put things right again.

That (if true) sounds like something I could handle, and something that wont totally screw up canon if it is indeed all put right by the end. BUT.....it's hardly a plot worthy of an anniversary ep, especailly if he really is using his Big Reset Button again to basically wipe the entire plot at the end

*sigh*

The sooner Moff and his constantly repeated ideas move on the better I think

[jer832.livejournal.com]

If we need some kind of logical reason for more regenerations and a DW that goes on as long as the BBC wants, then jessa gave the solution to the problem in "Alternate Reality; the One Less Traveled":

He knew who Rose was, though he found himself doubting that he would have forgotten her, even for a hearts-beat, even if he regenerated a half-dozen times. Not that he had a half-dozen regenerations left. Well, actually, with the Matrix gone and nothing to draw him out of functional reality, he supposed he would probably regenerate indefinitely.

Oh, joy.


(I LOVE the term functional reality, don't you? kuddos jessa)

As far as starting over - all rules off; all characterization up for grabs, (future) history, and plot and franchise continuity suddenly meaningless, then someone should give credit to J. J. Abrams, who rebooted a mega-franchise with a science fiction plot twist not just a cute phrase. (One could mention Red Dwarf. One could but doesn't really want to.) In the same was, DW can cut the strings but not throw out 50 years of wonder and love and family memories.

(Another thing J.J. did that was good... very very good... was replace Berman with good writing, but I don't believe in miracles.)