![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
amberfocusI have pretty much been ignoring LJ for the past couple of days to avoid spoilers and then of course, until I watched Journey's End. Which I've done now. And I'm...well...uncertain is the best word I can think of to describe it.
SPOILERS if you click on the Cut.
For the most part I actually liked the episode until the last few minutes or so, though lots of little things bugged me. I loved it when Donna made the Daleks go spinny and how joyful it made her. I think that might have been my favorite part in the whole thing. Even more so than Donna spouting brilliantly.
I hope this means we are done with the Daleks now. I'm sick of the Daleks. Really, really sick of them. I know this is probably Who sacrilege, but I've never liked the Daleks. I've always thought they were just...stupid. *sighs* Can't believe I'm admitting that out loud, but 34 years of being a fan of Who has not changed my opinion, no matter how bling they try to make them or in the fact that they gave them the power to float. There are far more interesting villains in all the years of Who and yet...Daleks. Responsible for saving the show from certain death when it began and yadda, yadda, yadda, but...yeah, just not my thing. They're boring. They have no motivation other than if it isn't like me, kill it. They don't yearn for anything. They don't want or love or care. They just hate. And there's no reason for it. How do you identify with that kind of monster? How do you make any connection?
I was hoping something, anything in the episode would actually make me cry. I was gutted by Doomsday and by The Parting of the Ways and by the death of the Master. I thought my heart would be pulled out and stomped on and was kind of looking forward to it. It wasn't. Maybe it should have been, maybe I've been spending far too much time in my own 'verses where I can make things hurt, make myself cry, and yet still have proper happy endings.
You see, Ten, the original, not Nu!Ten, should have said he loved Rose. He should have said it out loud. Even thought Nu!Ten said it, whispered it, and he kissed her and it was all very sweet and lovely, it should have made first!Ten jealous (yes, of himself) and finally able to spit those words out. And there should have been tears then, heartache as he confessed it and pulled her away from Nu!Ten and held her tightly and kissed her properly, and then and only then should he have been forced to give her up to Nu!Ten. I wanted to see that it hurt him and I wanted to see it hurt him in front of Rose. But I didn't. Instead I saw him simply walk away from every emotion he could have or should have been feeling in this moment. Even if he'd gotten into the TARDIS and just leaned hard against the doors and let it go, I would have felt better. But the way it was done, it was hard to believe it hurt and we know it should have hurt! But I didn't get that, not then, and I'm not sure I really got it even at the end.
And I wanted Rose to rail at him for leaving her and not saying the damn words to her or I wanted Nu!Ten to have kept her from going after him, prevented it somehow in his own bit of jealousy. I wanted more. So much more. And now I'm never going to get it. Unless I write it. Or someone else does.
And Donna. Well, I'll console myself with the fact that Donna remains an integral part of the Time Eternal universe and it's just tough, canon can go and whistle. Because she's brilliant and beautiful and strong and important and one of the best Who companions I've ever seen. And making her clueless, sleeping through yet another alien thing, ticked me off because she's better than that, darn it! Donna, more than just about anyone, felt like the Doctor's family. And though she remembers nothing, all that she gained by travelling with the Doctor, all that she became, is gone. And that's just wrong. Because that woman was so much more than the sum of her parts. And I adored her. And the Doctor did, too. I'm firmly convinced of it.
I'm glad at least that Nu!Ten is supposedly like Nine. And I think I'd like to explore that aspect at some point in fanfic when it's no longer so new and I'm no longer quite so confused about what this episode feels like inside my brain and my heart. Ten emphasized the negative of that, but Nine was so much more than what he said and Rose of all people would see that and bring it out. In a way, I think Nu!Ten has a leg up because he only destroyed one species and it was not his own species, and let's face it, he made the right choice here and I think he knows it. Finally. About bloody time he was willing to wipe the stinking Daleks out again. And I don't know what first!Ten was getting all high-horsey for anyway. He's wiped out three species if you count sending the Cybermen into the Void.
I had a hard time buying the TARDIS towing the planet Earth back into it's orbit. Spaceships, yes. Planets? DW skience strikes again.
I suspected this before and now I feel it to really be true, this whole Nu!Ten with Rose thing is why there is a River Song. To give original!Ten hope that there will be love again in his future so he can give up his Rose knowing she'll likely be happy with a humanish him and that he won't be alone forever. Even if it has ended before it's begun. Too bad he had no chemistry with the actress playing her.
Little things that bothered me most: No real Jack/Rose reunion. No real Jack/Rose good-bye. No one explaining to Rose why Jack came back from the dead. Jack not hugging Donna early on. I mean, come on, the woman is gorgeous and she's stacked. He's not going to hug her or try to cop a little feel? Please! He's Jack. Of course he would. Cheesy fake regeneration. Cheesy creation of Nu!Ten without proper science to back it. No big scorch marks in the TARDIS after she was freaking on fire! Luke not getting to meet the Doctor in person.
Little moments of win: Rose and Ten asking Gwen if she was from an old Cardiff family, the Gwyneth reference I wanted. Jackie fighting beside Mickey with her own BFG and I so hope someone makes an icon of that. I might even try it myself, I want it enough. Francine underneath the table like in an earthquake drill or something when the Earth is towed back to its orbit. Wilf saying he'll search the stars every night for the Doctor. Rose pretty much saying Martha was wonderful (which she is, darn it, when they let her be) or that she liked her or whatever it was she actually said and them hugging later. The Jack and Donna hug. Martha and Jack strolling off hand in hand at the end. Mickey going to join them (and hopefully Torchwood). Not to mention the Mickey/Jack greeting and hug.
I'm really frustrated. I kind of want to bang my head against the wall. They could have done better. That's what I'm left with and I've never been left with that in a new Who finale before. And that, too, is just wrong.
SPOILERS if you click on the Cut.
For the most part I actually liked the episode until the last few minutes or so, though lots of little things bugged me. I loved it when Donna made the Daleks go spinny and how joyful it made her. I think that might have been my favorite part in the whole thing. Even more so than Donna spouting brilliantly.
I hope this means we are done with the Daleks now. I'm sick of the Daleks. Really, really sick of them. I know this is probably Who sacrilege, but I've never liked the Daleks. I've always thought they were just...stupid. *sighs* Can't believe I'm admitting that out loud, but 34 years of being a fan of Who has not changed my opinion, no matter how bling they try to make them or in the fact that they gave them the power to float. There are far more interesting villains in all the years of Who and yet...Daleks. Responsible for saving the show from certain death when it began and yadda, yadda, yadda, but...yeah, just not my thing. They're boring. They have no motivation other than if it isn't like me, kill it. They don't yearn for anything. They don't want or love or care. They just hate. And there's no reason for it. How do you identify with that kind of monster? How do you make any connection?
I was hoping something, anything in the episode would actually make me cry. I was gutted by Doomsday and by The Parting of the Ways and by the death of the Master. I thought my heart would be pulled out and stomped on and was kind of looking forward to it. It wasn't. Maybe it should have been, maybe I've been spending far too much time in my own 'verses where I can make things hurt, make myself cry, and yet still have proper happy endings.
You see, Ten, the original, not Nu!Ten, should have said he loved Rose. He should have said it out loud. Even thought Nu!Ten said it, whispered it, and he kissed her and it was all very sweet and lovely, it should have made first!Ten jealous (yes, of himself) and finally able to spit those words out. And there should have been tears then, heartache as he confessed it and pulled her away from Nu!Ten and held her tightly and kissed her properly, and then and only then should he have been forced to give her up to Nu!Ten. I wanted to see that it hurt him and I wanted to see it hurt him in front of Rose. But I didn't. Instead I saw him simply walk away from every emotion he could have or should have been feeling in this moment. Even if he'd gotten into the TARDIS and just leaned hard against the doors and let it go, I would have felt better. But the way it was done, it was hard to believe it hurt and we know it should have hurt! But I didn't get that, not then, and I'm not sure I really got it even at the end.
And I wanted Rose to rail at him for leaving her and not saying the damn words to her or I wanted Nu!Ten to have kept her from going after him, prevented it somehow in his own bit of jealousy. I wanted more. So much more. And now I'm never going to get it. Unless I write it. Or someone else does.
And Donna. Well, I'll console myself with the fact that Donna remains an integral part of the Time Eternal universe and it's just tough, canon can go and whistle. Because she's brilliant and beautiful and strong and important and one of the best Who companions I've ever seen. And making her clueless, sleeping through yet another alien thing, ticked me off because she's better than that, darn it! Donna, more than just about anyone, felt like the Doctor's family. And though she remembers nothing, all that she gained by travelling with the Doctor, all that she became, is gone. And that's just wrong. Because that woman was so much more than the sum of her parts. And I adored her. And the Doctor did, too. I'm firmly convinced of it.
I'm glad at least that Nu!Ten is supposedly like Nine. And I think I'd like to explore that aspect at some point in fanfic when it's no longer so new and I'm no longer quite so confused about what this episode feels like inside my brain and my heart. Ten emphasized the negative of that, but Nine was so much more than what he said and Rose of all people would see that and bring it out. In a way, I think Nu!Ten has a leg up because he only destroyed one species and it was not his own species, and let's face it, he made the right choice here and I think he knows it. Finally. About bloody time he was willing to wipe the stinking Daleks out again. And I don't know what first!Ten was getting all high-horsey for anyway. He's wiped out three species if you count sending the Cybermen into the Void.
I had a hard time buying the TARDIS towing the planet Earth back into it's orbit. Spaceships, yes. Planets? DW skience strikes again.
I suspected this before and now I feel it to really be true, this whole Nu!Ten with Rose thing is why there is a River Song. To give original!Ten hope that there will be love again in his future so he can give up his Rose knowing she'll likely be happy with a humanish him and that he won't be alone forever. Even if it has ended before it's begun. Too bad he had no chemistry with the actress playing her.
Little things that bothered me most: No real Jack/Rose reunion. No real Jack/Rose good-bye. No one explaining to Rose why Jack came back from the dead. Jack not hugging Donna early on. I mean, come on, the woman is gorgeous and she's stacked. He's not going to hug her or try to cop a little feel? Please! He's Jack. Of course he would. Cheesy fake regeneration. Cheesy creation of Nu!Ten without proper science to back it. No big scorch marks in the TARDIS after she was freaking on fire! Luke not getting to meet the Doctor in person.
Little moments of win: Rose and Ten asking Gwen if she was from an old Cardiff family, the Gwyneth reference I wanted. Jackie fighting beside Mickey with her own BFG and I so hope someone makes an icon of that. I might even try it myself, I want it enough. Francine underneath the table like in an earthquake drill or something when the Earth is towed back to its orbit. Wilf saying he'll search the stars every night for the Doctor. Rose pretty much saying Martha was wonderful (which she is, darn it, when they let her be) or that she liked her or whatever it was she actually said and them hugging later. The Jack and Donna hug. Martha and Jack strolling off hand in hand at the end. Mickey going to join them (and hopefully Torchwood). Not to mention the Mickey/Jack greeting and hug.
I'm really frustrated. I kind of want to bang my head against the wall. They could have done better. That's what I'm left with and I've never been left with that in a new Who finale before. And that, too, is just wrong.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 08:30 am (UTC)As much resisting as I put up with not liking Donna, in the end, I did and was crushed that she had her memories taken. The good she could have done like Martha would have been incredible. Your version of Donna will forever be tied with Catherin Tate's Donna in my book.
I had Monster tears for Wilf. I was expecting him to say that he wanted to go with but that didn't happen.
NO RIVER SONG PLEASE!
no subject
Date: 2008-07-10 10:34 pm (UTC)I'm glad you'll keep my version of Donna tied to CT's. That's a lovely compliment.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 08:38 am (UTC)I agree about the Daleks - I'm so sick of bloody daleks. They where never as good as people made them out to be and RTD drove them into the ground with over use and lame stories. The best Dalek still remains the lone Dalek from series one.
I'm so upset over Donna's ending I don't even have words. Really I don't have any words that are not full of angry.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-10 10:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-11 01:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 09:59 am (UTC)I think 10 is worse off now than when he was 9. Yes, he's recovered from the time war, but he has managed to get rid of every single person who cared about him.
So what is the next series? Doctor Who and the Psychiatrist? Both 10 and 10.5 are gonna need some heavy duty therapy. Hope RTD set aside funding.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-10 10:38 pm (UTC)I hope Ten is able to find a new companion that is a bit healing, but not one that falls for him. I'd like to see two people join him, really. Changes the dynamic a lot and maybe they can fall for each other instead of him.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 10:42 am (UTC)And the whole lack of Jack/Rose interaction really bothered me, too. Apparently she found out he was alive (in Turn Left) but Jack didn't know Rose was back, did he?
What happened to Donna was just... unspeakably sad. I can't even deal with it.
Also: Screw River Song.
sorry for the ranting.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-10 10:40 pm (UTC)I don't feel right about the way he left her and I never will. He should have hugged her good-bye and then torn himself from her arms and ran, but he shouldn't have just walked away, not even if his heart was broken from watching her kiss the other him and knowing it could have been him if only he'd said the bloody words. *sighs*
I'm still annoyed at the lack of Jack/Rose.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 12:18 pm (UTC)Although, I do agree, I think he did the right thing and shouldn't need healed from it, but hey he got Rose so YAY him.
I was also bitterly dissappointed with the way the ended Donna's story and will continue to adore her in your universe.
And I really hope bot Mickey and Martha will join Torchwood.
I do agree with the disappointment in the lack of Jack/Rose interaction.
But overall, I actually really liked it. And I may be a complete sap, but I did cry at the end, both Rose's and Donna's. I just have to have faith that you and all the other authors will keep me in fanfic and happy ever afters for some time to come. Thanks. Sorry for going on so long.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-10 10:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 12:24 pm (UTC)I'm very annoyed that the Doctor gave Rose up so easily. Yes, we knew it was breaking his hearts, but I'd much rather have *seen* it, ala "Doomsday". I suppose RTD was trying to soften the blow by not forcing us to watch the Doctor confess his love for Rose and then leave her behind, but it makes the whole scene feel a bit hollow.
And if they were going to go that way, I wish they'd emphasized Human!Ten's similarities rather than his differences from the original. I mean...he WAS Ten, right up until that weirdo faux regeneration. He's a bit more human now, but he's still the Doctor, you know? I hate that it felt like Rose was being fobbed off with an inferior copy. Human!Ten should be rightly pissed!
Ah well...I guess what it comes down to in the end is exactly what you said. They had the right idea, but it could have been executed much, much better.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-10 10:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 12:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-10 10:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 01:56 pm (UTC)And Donna, don't even get me started. He was a right selfish *!#@$@$ for what he did to her. She wanted to stay the person she was, even if it meant dying. I get that he didnt want to lose anyone again, but didn't he lose her anyway. The Donna he loved and who was a better person, is gone. Let her go the way she wants- take her home let her say goodbye and give her her choice.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-10 11:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 02:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-10 11:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 03:07 pm (UTC)And there should have been tears then, heartache as he confessed it and pulled her away from Nu!Ten and held her tightly and kissed her properly, and then and only then should he have been forced to give her up to Nu!Ten.
THIS. So much this. Gah. And you're definitely right about River Song. But as I said in my own journal, unfortunately, all the Doctor can do now is "prepare for an awkward, doomed romance with Moffat's shrewish creation. Ew." And there was no closure with Jack and Rose. And Donna's character was frankly violated. Like, my own layout upsets me now.
...Oh yes, I will be fixing this in fic. Not sure about fixing Donna, but like in your Time Eternal verse, my Peril-verse will at least keep her alive and kicking, and canon can stuff it. :-p
Those moments of win were fantastic; it's a shame they were temporarily blown out of my head by the episode's ending.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-10 11:05 pm (UTC)I so hope that Moffat doesn't force the River Song storyline down our throats. I'd really like to see no Doctor romance in the specials or in season 5. I wouldn't mind double companions in season 5 who slowly fall in love with each other, though. That's my best case scenario. Plus, I want a companion or companions that stick with him for more than one season, like in the olden days. We all need the continuity.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 06:00 pm (UTC)But yes, Rose and Jack was swindled of their reunion, and doing that to Donna was brutal and unfair. It'd have been better if she died, but she got to live a diminished life because the Doctor couldn't take someone else dying for his sake.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-10 11:29 pm (UTC)Ten grew so much because of Rose and I hate this regression myself. I do think it is in character for him to leave her, but not without saying a true good-bye. He's always managed some form of good-bye for her before leaving. That's the part that feels OOC.
I'm not sure it would be better if Donna died. I have to think some spark of who she became is still there inside her. She has the potential for brilliance and I think her grandfather and quite possibly her mother now will encourage her to find it. She is the one who became the most important person in the universe. She may not be finished yet with that.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 07:33 pm (UTC)And yeah! No real Jack/Rose reunion! In 65 minutes, RTD should have taken a few minutes to write it!
Ten leaving while Rose and Human!Doctor were kissing looked a bit like he was leaving her behind. Running away from the girl he loves and had promised to he would never do that to her.
I think that he actually didn't fight for Rose because he wanted her to stay in the Alt!world. Davros told him lots of people died in his name and he spoke about his true nature, the Destroyer of worlds. A nature we witnessed more than once during series 3. I don't think the Doctor would have liked Rose to see that.
Caan called him the Dark Lord... Some might call him in a few years the Valeyard.
Lol, do you think that once the Valyard has been defeated, the Doctor will go to Rose and give him to her? "Oh, by the way, another Doctor to cure! See you!".
Pfffttt, that's ridiculous!
And as far as River Song is concerned, as you said, her story is already over before it begins. It's hopeless. And sad (even if I didn't like the character).
More angst to come.
I love angst usually but enough is enough!!!
no subject
Date: 2008-07-10 11:30 pm (UTC)Donnadoctor
Date: 2008-07-06 10:16 pm (UTC)Re: Donnadoctor
Date: 2008-07-10 11:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-07 01:59 am (UTC)Please? For ALL of us?
*Hopeful hugs*
no subject
Date: 2008-07-10 11:45 pm (UTC)When thinking of Nu!Ten I thought of you
Date: 2008-07-07 04:52 am (UTC)susan
Re: When thinking of Nu!Ten I thought of you
Date: 2008-07-10 11:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-07 06:16 am (UTC)I am with you on every point.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-10 11:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-08 12:32 pm (UTC)Things I liked:
- Rose gets a Doctor, yah!
- The whole team's back together and saving the universe
- Mickey's back!
- Spinning Daleks (especially when they're kicking them out of the way)
- HUG!!!!
- KISS!!!!!!!!!!
Things I didn't like:
- Donna's ending (I LOVED Donna!!!!!)
- Original!Ten's ending (cut off from the woman he loves permanently, no companions, getting to see all his companions bounce off happily into the sunset, except Donna who doesn't remember a thing, and probably the loneliest, most depressed creature in the universes, poor thing)
And I'm sure the Daleks will be back in the future, but I agree, I'd rather see some different villians. Bring back the Master, or, IDK, the Ice Warriors or something. Not the Sontarans, they weren't that interesting. I mean, one good hit and they're dead.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-10 11:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-09 12:44 am (UTC)Thinking about you today, and hoping you're doing all right. I know you took JE hard. Come back soon?
no subject
Date: 2008-07-10 11:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-11 12:08 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-09 01:43 am (UTC)I agree with the others. I would love to see you rewrite that scene (maybe even throw in a little smut) since RTD royally screwed us over.
And what was that thing with River Song? No chemistry between the actors and the story is over before it begins. YUCK!!!
Can't wait for your next updates to Hunger Moon and You're What?
no subject
Date: 2008-07-10 11:51 pm (UTC)I will be redoing the last several minutes of the episode and then progressing into the future of new Ten and Rose, but not yet. I can't deal with it just yet.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-11 01:33 am (UTC)