amberfocus | DW 613--Reaction Post

Well, that was a bit of a mess, wasn't it? Very sloppy story-telling. Although I guess that can pretty much sum up this season, huh? I mean, there were bits that I liked, some quite a lot, but most of it was just...well, if someone had written fanfic like this I would have abandoned it after the first couple of chapters because so much in it was a rehash of previous work and so much of it was nonsensical to ridiculous. There was no clear plot, characterization was massively shifted once again, and for no very good reason that I could see, the Doctor gets married to River. I just don't get that. I don't buy that he's in love with her. I'm not even sure that he loves her though I think he's got affection for her. I like River, mostly season five River, but I think Moffat messed her up a lot with this goofy storyline. I just want Doctor Who to make sense again. I want some plots that start at the beginning, then go to the middle, and then follow through with an ending. And we just aren't getting them. I'd say maybe next year, but not with Moffat still in charge. That man needs a lesson in linear story-telling, stat. And also, Doctor Who as the question? Seriously? That play on words is older than the Doctor practically.

I did like the hot air balloon cars, but that does not a shining episode make.

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I am so glad to see you say that. This just... argh. The story telling goes beyond sloppy in places, it becomes outright lazy. The reveal via River that the Doctor is still alive, for instance. Did you also see the robot solution coming?

...for no very good reason that I could see, the Doctor gets married to River. I just don't get that. I don't buy that he's in love with her. I'm not even sure that he loves her though I think he's got affection for her.

After various discussions, a friend of mine stumbled into a reason to make it make sense. Namely, River desperately wants him to love her. Which he knows. She wants desperately to be the woman who marries him, not murders him. Which he knows. He wants to repair the universe and so bribes her with a wedding. Very romantic, oh yes.

Theory that you can smack me down for if it looks too crazy:

After the backstory we've gotten on River this season, I'm not sure it can actually be said that she loves the Doctor. Too much of her characterization is centered around him, she's been brainwashed over him since forever, all of her is bound up in the marry/murder debate, so on and so forth. The sheer number of times she uses the word "love" is excessive. No one does that but the vastly, vastly insecure. It's more like it's something else she's been brainwashed to believe. Believe very much, enough to do really stupid stuff over it, but there's nothing that's tender about her emotion. It's all flashy and huge.

The point where River is at when she defies the Lake Silencio thing? She's been Mels after being the little kid in the suit. She grew up listening to Amy tell stories about the Doctor. Then she went batshit. Then the TARDIS downloaded goodness into her, she was handed her name, and then goes to university/stalks the Doctor. That's the grand sum of her interactions with him up until that point. Pretty darn sure about that.

I really don't see the love anywhere.

I did like the hot air balloon cars, but that does not a shining episode make.

No, but that Christmas Special by Dickens did sound cool. I'd take his somewhat flat but rather consistent characterization by this point, too.

Thank goodness I'm not the only one.

I'm with you hon. So little about this season made any sense at all, especially the backstory on River. Moffat is turning Doctor Who into C-grade sci-fi and ultimately a caricature of itself.

He's going to destroy one of the greatest sci-fi franchises in history at this rate.

Not much else to add to the positive side other than the filming and production values were really gorgeous. Mr. Who, who is a brand new Who-watcher and doesn't GET the back story AT ALL really likes Eleven, and thinks River "carries her femininity well." I think he just has a thing for Alex Kingston. He also mentioned that River would have been a good character on Firefly.

I liked the Amy/Captain Williams flirtation and the "Pond, Amelia Pond" line. Area 52 was humorous.

I really don't see the love anywhere.

This is an astute observation -- obsession versus love, brainwashed to believe she had to marry the Doctor...

When River meets Ten in the Library, it is almost like she is a *different* River than we have seen either season 5 or 6. When does this shift occur?

From everything she had said, and from the flirtatious comments, I always assumed that her marriage to the Doctor happened VERY MUCH in the future, perhaps even after Eleven had regenerated or well beyond. I thought it was going to be one of those Who mysteries. The "You're so young!" and was a reoccurring theme in her banter.

It seems like Moff decided, "I need to get them married now" because people wanted it. (I do concede that there are many Eleven/River shippers out there, I'm just not one of them, obviously.) It felt so rushed.

However, the fact that season 1 - 4 characters (Rose, Donna, Martha and Jack) have been mentioned in two episodes now also implies that he is getting pressure to acknowledge that these seasons actually do MATTER to many if not most Who fans.

Bottom line? I just don't think he really knows where he is taking the series, or if he does know, it is a really HUGE almost unmanageable mess of stories that has snowballed almost out of control. It just feels like he is flying-by-the-seat-of-his-pants...

You have summed up my feelings exactly! I think it really is a case of trying too hard to be clever. Part of me hopes that we're now done with River since her character is been so hacked at, but I'm afraid we aren't. At least we have GOOD fan ficition to survive on while we miss R.T. Davies.

My opinion on the whole Doctor/River marriage is that he knew that there was no other way to change the timeline, and because she refused to touch him otherwise, he married her in order to save the universe. The whole kissing scene was just so awkward, as well; they just don't have that type of chemistry, and it paralleled too much with PotW with all the gold flashy lights and close ups. PotW was huge and emotional and all about sacrificing one's self for the woman you love, not about a quick impromptu marriage to shut the girl up so he could restore the universe already. Sometimes I feel like she forced him into it, dropping hints that made him feel obligated to marry her, not because he wanted to out of love and devotion. Yes, he cares for River, but I think that is more out of guilt because he failed her and her parents when she was a baby rather than out of love.
What I don't get is that their timelines are supposed to be reversed; her past is his future and vice versa. Isn't she supposed to be Mels at this point? River had just regenerated in LKH, so if their timelines are supposed to be so, she would be Mels, not River. I understand wanting to have a character that is recognizable, but this just puzzles me.

This entire season in a nutshell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9Q5baJ223M&feature=player_embedded#!

Yeah, that was pretty much my reaction too.

The robot solution was so obvious, I actually was expecting it to be something else in the end, because I thought "no, that's so obvious it can't possibly be that simple".

I've never liked River, and the more of her see, the less I like her. If you have to make it so complicated to make it work, it's just a bad idea.

And Doctor Who is the question? Really? That's like...that's like Harriet Jones, Prime Minister for crying out loud. What worries me is that the answer to Doctor Who? is his name, which means we'll have to suffer another season of how much River loves the Doctor so that he can eventually tell her right before he sends her off to her death at The Library.

The best thing about this episode for me was Rory. I love him more with every episode.

I completely agree with what everyone is saying here. Loved the Rose, Jack, and Brigadier references. Love Rory the more we see him and dislike River the more we see her. She just never has had that special vibe I get from good Doctor Who characters. She seems flat. I love Alex as an actress, but this character does not challenge her at all.

The more I think about it, and I have, as well as discussed it with Austin (who I might add was equally WTF? about the ep), the only reason I can see for the wedding was that the Doctor deemed that to be the only way to get River to do what he wanted her to do.

This is not a nice thought, but it's where I'm at, and frankly I hate Moffat right now for putting me there.

Compared to Series 6 River, Series 4 River is starting to look pretty darn good. And that was when I thought she was a Mary Sue... Now, it's just getting ridiculous. *rolls eyes*

I think Moffat keep bringing up River because he couldn't find any other interesting stories to tell. Before Moffat, Hubby and I can't wait to watch Doctor Who. Now it is painful to watch because we find it doesn't make sense or silly. Like in The Curse of the Black Spot, the Doctor had to stand by and let Amy give CPR to Rory. Really?? And what about in the beginning of the season where it seems like Moffat was trying to show there is a love triangle between Amy, Rory, and the Doctor. And then... this?

DW 613--Reaction Post

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